Okeh Records, Memphis 1920-1930 in Pre War Blues Forum

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Okeh Records, Memphis 1920-1930

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Delta Dan

Okeh Records, Memphis 1920-1930

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Posts: 53

Jun 14 05 12:01 PM

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I am researching a book on Mississippi John Hurt and trying to gain some info on the location of the Okeh studio and any archive records covering the time of John Hurt's origianl Memphis and New York Recordings. Can any one out there help?
Cheers
Delta Dan

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The Blindman

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Deepest Blue

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Jun 14 05 12:07 PM

You probably need to talk with john4y Dan,
he's John Hurt's nephew and might be able to help out.

blindman

Aberdeen - Scotland

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Not even Forumer is Gonna Put Me Down!

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Delta Dan

#2

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Jun 14 05 12:11 PM

Thanks Blindman. I am in touch with john4y and I will certainly be taking this up with him. Hey john are you reading this?
I wondered if anyone from around Memphis or NY might know anything?
Cheers
Dan

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john4y

#3

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 11465

Jun 14 05 12:36 PM

Yes, I'm reading, Dan. Good morning.

Location? You got me, pal. I believe the New York studio was in the Tin Pan Alley neighborhood. As for the Memphis station, I stumped.

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

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Sam hopkins

#4

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Deepest Blue

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Jun 14 05 7:03 PM

QUOTE (Delta Dan @ Jun 14 2005, 12:01 PM)

I am researching a book on Mississippi John Hurt and trying to gain some info on the location of the Okeh studio and any archive records covering the time of John Hurt's origianl Memphis and New York Recordings. Can any one out there help?
Cheers
Delta Dan

I'm probably misunderstanding what is being asked here but Columbia/Okeh never had a Memphis studio. It was field recording units who were sent to cities like Memphis after tip offs from talent scouts and the like. The unit probably set up in a suitable hall, hotel or similar, to record blues, hillbilly, oldtime and.... See "The Race Labels" preface pages to Blues & Gopel Records 1890-1943. In my mind's eye I can visualise an ancient jazz publication/book which discussed in passing the New York studio of Okeh in relation to a jazz artist. But that is probably an out of date long shot.

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Sam hopkins

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Deepest Blue

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Jun 14 05 7:23 PM

Perry Bradford in his autobiography "Born With The Blues" (Oak, 1965) when discussing his attempts to interest a company in his discovery Mamie Smith says that in February 1920 he "strolled around to Okeh's studio at 145 West 45th Street to see Mr Fred Hagar..." I guess eight years later it was probably still at the same location, but one never knows!

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john4y

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Deepest Blue

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Jun 15 05 11:04 AM

Delta Dan.

I think the first Okeh studio can be traced to the Keen-O-Phone Company which was located in the same area once called Tin Pan Alley around West 31st and 32nd St. Yes, by 1928 they had moved up to around Times Square (25 W. 45th St). That was the same location where Mamie Smith cut the first blues recording and things were never the same again.

The long time musical director there was a man named Fred Hager. I believe he was the man responsibe for recording my uncles 1928 sides.

You know, after my uncles night concerts here in Boston, Dick Waterman would drop us off at my house and leave. Mississippi John and I would sit up until two and three in the morning talking about the twenties. History had been my major in school so that's why I'd ask him so many questions. Dan, there was so much that he couldn't remember, or had just plain forgotten. Usually, it was always better talking with his wife Jessie because, by far, she had the better memory.

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

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The Blindman

#7

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Deepest Blue

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Jun 15 05 12:11 PM

I've got this on OkeH,

QUOTE

• In the summer of 1921 "Original Race Records" was established by General Phonograph Corporation on the OKeh label.

AND

QUOTE

Okeh Records began as an independent record label based in the United States of America in the 1910s; from the late 1920s on was a subsidiary of Columbia Records. Okeh was founded by Otto Heinemann (1877-1965), a German-American manager for the U.S. branch of German owned Odeon Records. As World War I raged in Europe, Heinemann thought it best to have an American based company. He incorporated the Otto Heinemann Phonograph Corporation in 1916, set up his own recording studio and disc record pressing plant in New York City, and introduced the company's line of records for public sale in September of 1918. Heinemann formed the name of the record label "Okeh", from his initials; early disc labels rendered the name as OkeH. The first discs were vertical cut. In 1919 Okeh switched to the lateral cut method of sound recording, more usual for disc records. That same year the name of the label's owning company was changed to the General Phonograph Corporation. The name on the labels was changed to OKeh. The common 10 inch discs retailed for 75 cents each; the 12 inch discs for $1.25. The company's musical director was Fred Hager, who also appeared under the pseudonym of "Milo Rega" (Hager's middle name and his surname recersed).

Okeh began by issueing popular songs, dance numbers, and vaudeville skits similar to the fare of other labels, but Heineman also wished to experiment with music for audiences neglected by the larger record companies. Okeh produced lines of recordings in German, Czech, Polish, Swedish, and Yiddish for the USA's imigrant communities. Some were pressed from masters leased from European lables, others were recorded by Okeh in New York.

In 1920, Ralph Peer's recordings by African-American blues singer Mamie Smith were a surprise smash hit for Okeh. The company perceived the significant little tapped market for blues and jazz by African American artists. In 1922 Okeh hired Clarence Williams to act as director of "Race" (African American) recordings for Okeh's New York studios, in addition to making recordings under his own name. Okeh then opened a recording studio in Chicago, Illinois, the center of jazz in the 1920s, where Richard M. Jones served as "Race" recordings director. Many classic jazz performances by the likes of King Oliver, Sidney Bechet, and Louis Armstrong were recorded by Okeh.

Okeh Records pioneered the practice of "location recording" in 1922. Starting in 1924 Okeh also sent mobile recording trucks to tour other parts of the country to record performers not heard in New York or Chicago. Regular return trips were made once or twice a year to New Orleans, Louisiana, Atlanta, Georgia, San Antonio, Texas, Saint Louis, Missouri, Kansas City, Missouri, and Detroit, Michigan, recording a wealth of jazz and early country music artists.

In 1926 Okeh switched to the electric microphone system of audio recording. On November 11 of that year, controlling interest in Okeh was purchased by Columbia Records. The Okeh label was continued until 1935. Columbia again revived the label in 1940 after they lost the rights to the Vocalion name (by dropping the Brunswick label) and pressed it until 1946; it was revived in the 1950's and used sporadically, and in the 1990s.

AND THIS:

QUOTE

OKeh coroprate history

Otto Heineman Phonograph Supply Company, Inc. (1915-1919)

General Phonograph Corporation (1919-1926)

OKeh Phonograph Corporation (1926-1933)

OKeh [subsiduary of Columbia Phonograph Company, Inc.] (1933-1934)

Unfortunately no address for OkeH or the General Phonograph Corporation.

blindman

Aberdeen - Scotland

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Not even Forumer is Gonna Put Me Down!

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john4y

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Jun 15 05 6:07 PM

Blindman.

The October 1926 Manhatten Telephone Directory has Okeh's main office listed at 25 West 45th Street and their Distributing Division at 15 West 18th Street. I understand that the 45th Street address was there until sometime in 1931. 45th Street had a studio there in 1926.

A second studio was was added in January 1927, this evidenced by a dramatic change in recording room acoustics, or "room tone"

Tommy Rockwell, I think, was the first man to hear my uncle, Mississippi John Hurt, in Avalon during 1928. He also at that time invited him North to record. Tommy was with Okeh's Recording Department where he had transferred to Okeh from Columbia Records. Anyway, on one of his letters, the letterhead shows Okeh's address again as 25 West 45th Street.

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

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john4y

#9

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 11465

Jun 15 05 6:22 PM

Blindman.

I forgot to add that the second new studio built was located at Broadway and Union Square in New york City. Now the way I see it, my uncle must have recorded at one of those studios when he journeyed to New York in late 1928.

I hope Delta Dan checks out this info. Most of it should be correct.

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

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Sam hopkins

#10

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Deepest Blue

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Jun 15 05 6:29 PM

QUOTE (john4y @ Jun 15 2005, 06:07 PM)

Blindman.
Tommy Rockwell, I think, was the first man to hear my uncle, Mississippi John Hurt, in Avalon during 1928. He also at that time invited him North to record. Tommy was with Okeh's Recording Department where he had transferred to Okeh from Columbia Records. Anyway, on one of his letters, the letterhead shows Okeh's address again as 25 West 45th Street.

Thomas G Rockwell's adopted son, Mal(colm) is a pre war blues collector (hardly surprising) who for some years has been researching a book on pre-war Hawaiian music.
Just thought you folk might be interested in this piece of trivia...

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john4y

#11

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 11465

Jun 15 05 6:43 PM

Sam.

Thanks so much for that piece of info.

Blindman.

Are you a member of Genealogy.Com or Ancestry.Com? I have been for several years and it's a great place to look up old phone numbers, vital statistics, addresses, and they have a great Social Security Index which you can use for free. It really helped me out today.

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

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TangyBlues

#12

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Posts: 125

Jun 16 05 1:04 PM

Delta Dan.

I was just perusing through through the Manhattan Telephone Directory for 1927- 1928. Okeh's new studio's address is listed at 11 Union Square in New York City. Now that is not to say the others were closed down. This was just a more state of the art studio with better acoustics.

Their main office is still listed at 25 West 45th Street where the older studio was.

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john4y

#13

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Deepest Blue

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Jun 16 05 1:12 PM

Delta Dan.

Don't mind the "Tangy Blues". That's just the Avatar my wife's father used when he was here a month ago. It's all my writing about the Okeh's New York studios.

I'll soon place more info up in MJH's pics for john4y.

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

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john4y

#14

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 11465

Jun 17 05 9:40 AM

Memphis, where my uncle recorded, had no Okeh offices. I checked every phonebook from 1927 to 1930. What I do know is that Okeh sent in field units, set up make shift studios, and made recordings in places like the Memphis auditorium and the Peabody Hotel. This practice was done in other cities like San Antonio, St. Louis, Atlanta, and especially Memphis.

They drew artists through ads in the newspapers, on radio, or by word of mouth which is how John Hurt was first discovered when Willie Narmour recommended him to Tommy Rockwell of Okeh's Recording Dept. It is my fervent belief that my uncle was recorded at the Peabody Hotel in Memphis.

Delta Dan, I've given you the address of Okeh's main office in New York as well as the studio addresses. I didn't give you their studio address at 145 West 45th Street because by 1928 it had long closed down and wouldn't be pertinent here. That studio had already moved to 11 Union Square West when my uncle arrived in 1928.

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

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john4y

#15

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 11465

Jun 17 05 12:23 PM

I found it interesting that instead of the phonebook listing them as recording studios, they were referred to as "recording laboratories".

Dental Technicians were listed as "dental mechanics".

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

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Delta Dan

#16

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Posts: 53

Jun 18 05 10:12 AM

Thank you so much to all of you who have gone to so much trouble to help me with this topic. Your contributions are so valuable and have saved me considerable time. I thank you all again. I will be following up the leads provided and I will be acknowledging all of the help that I continue to receive from members of this Forum.
On my forthcoming visit to the US I have arranged to meet with Peter Silitch who was one of the recording engineers on John Hurt's 60's recordings. I am sure that he will have much to contribute.
Thanks again folks
Dan