Rev. Robert Wilkins' 1964 Piedmont album in Post War Blues Forum

0 Points

Add Reply New Topic New Poll

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Rev. Robert Wilkins' 1964 Piedmont album

Author

Comment

Tom Rushen

Rev. Robert Wilkins' 1964 Piedmont album

Lead

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Jun 20 09 11:18 PM

Tags : None

Over in Pre-War, there's a thread about Yazoo CDs that are out-of-print that has a post from LD50 asking:

Incidentally, WHEN is the 1964 Piedmont Robert Wilkins LP going to be reissued? You know, the postwar one with Prodigal Son? A beautiful LP, and I don't think it's ever been put out on CD. I'm gonna have to burn my LP copy to a CD, once I get the hardware to do so.

Over on weeniecampbell, there was a thread last year that indicated a reissue on CD of the Dick Spottswood's 1964 sessions with Rev. Wilkins was going to be reissued, with lots of previously unissued material from those sessions. The original issue is a gorgeous album, really one of the very best things to come out of the early 60s blues revival.

The songs:

- Jesus Will Fix It Allright
- Thank You, Jesus
- Just A Closer Walk With Thee
- Do Lord Remember Me
- Here Am I, Send Me
- The Prodigal Son
- Jesus Said If You Go
- I'm Going Home To My Heavenly King

However, there's been zero recent news about it, and who knows whether it will really ever see the light of day. After all, it can't be the most commercially viable CD release we're ever likely to see.

The original album on the Piedmont label is scarcer than hen's teeth. The mid-80s vinyl reissue on OJL isn't much easier to find. I once had the Piedmont and foolishly sold it a long, long time ago. Last year, I found a near-mint copy of the OJL, and thanks to Jeff Konkel's help, I was able to procure an excellent CDR vinyl-to-digital copy of it from a friend of Jeff's who had the proper equipment.

So here's my question: who here at BBF is interested in participating in a CDR tree to distribute copies to members? If so, please post your interest here in this thread. If you are willing to make copies for other members, please indicate that, too.

I think it's important to add one caveat: I think each person who asks for a copy needs to pledge to buy the CD reissue, if it ever sees the light of day. I really would hate to distribute this and potentially hurt the sales of the reissue. That reissue will be lucky to sell a thousand copies, IMHO, and cheating the reissuers out of even a few sales just because someone got a CDR copy of the vinyl seems very wrong to me.

I don't know how many BBFers are interested in this, but I guess I'm about to find out...

Reply Quote

jostber

#1

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 3408

Jun 21 09 11:20 AM

Thanks for the attention to this Tom. Would love to see this released!

AllMusic:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:kpfexqwgld0e

Reply Quote

john4y

#2

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 11465

Jun 21 09 12:31 PM

I must've bought Rev. Wilkins' Piedmont album nearly 45 years ago. Indeed, it is one great find, if you can get ahold of a copy today. I spoke with Dick Spottswood a few years ago. He was teaching at American University in Washington, DC, and man, he's good to talk with, as he can remember well a lot that went on with some of the rediscovered blues artists of the 1960s.

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

Reply Quote

Petway

#3

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 1146

Jun 21 09 1:15 PM

QUOTE (Tom Rushen @ June 20, 2009 11:18 pm)

I think it's important to add one caveat: I think each person who asks for a copy needs to pledge to buy the CD reissue, if it ever sees the light of day.�

I am very admirative of the trust you put in human nature, Tom. I wouldn't mind helping, that is, if I understood you rightly, receive one copy and make some more for the (possibly European, but why not other?) BBF'ers I already (somewhat) know, but don't you want me (or anyone else, unless previously done) to ask Andy Cohen if he knows more about the reissue, which was scheduled this Spring?
I prefer asking so that he shouldn't be flooded with mail about the same question.

Patrice - Puiseaux (France)

Reply Quote

Tom Rushen

#4

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Jun 21 09 1:36 PM

QUOTE (Petway @ June 21, 2009 09:15 am)

QUOTE (Tom Rushen @ June 20, 2009 11:18 pm)

I think it's important to add one caveat: I think each person who asks for a copy needs to pledge to buy the CD reissue, if it ever sees the light of day.�

I am very admirative of the trust you put in human nature, Tom. I wouldn't mind helping, that is, if I understood you rightly, receive one copy and make some more for the (possibly European, but why not other?) BBF'ers I already (somewhat) know, but don't you want me (or anyone else, unless previously done) to ask Andy Cohen if he knows more about the reissue, which was scheduled this Spring?
I prefer asking so that he shouldn't be flooded with mail about the same question.

Absolutely!

If anyone here can get an update from Mr. Cohen on the reissue project, please do so, it would be of real interest to me, that's a certainty.

If we learn the project is in jeopardy, I would be quite willing to send CDRs of the original vinyl out to BBFers in Europe and elsewhere to distribute.

Reply Quote

Petway

#5

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 1146

Jun 21 09 1:41 PM

OK, I'll email him right away

Patrice - Puiseaux (France)

Reply Quote

Petway

#6

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 1146

Jun 21 09 2:03 PM

Well, it did not take long :

> Soon, like in a month. The trick was to get Larkin to decide what was to be
> on it, which only took ten years. We need to buy the rights to a picture,
> and get the reference CD mastered. Production is a couple of weeks away. I
> have to write some notes, and organize the the package, then the marketing
> of it, such as it will be.

> Andy

Patrice - Puiseaux (France)

Reply Quote

Tom Rushen

#7

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Jun 21 09 5:24 PM

I'm not familiar with Andy Cohen, though a google search told me a little bit. Will this Wilkins reissue be on the Riverlark label?

It sounds as though Mr. Cohen is trying to do the right thing when he says he needs to purchase rights to a photo of Rev. Wilkins. I also hope that the Wilkins family will benefit in some financial way from the reissue of the Piedmont recordings, even if the amount might be small if sales are low. Do you know if Mr. Cohen has an arrangement with the Wilkins family?

I did find something I found fascinating at amazon.com about the Yazoo reissue of Wilkins' early blues recordings. His granddaughter writes a review in which she takes strong exception to one other reviewer's comments that Rev. Wilkins' blues recordings are preferred over his gospel music:

As the granddaughter of Wilkins, I am offended when I read reviews that state his 1920s blues recordings are better than the gospel recordings of the 1960s. People who make these types of statements are simply looking for the pleasure that comes from listening to the old phraselogy that the original blues guitarists used.

Common sense tells a person that after 40 years of constantly playing and singing, my grandfather's voice matured and his guitar licks were acts of perfection. In the opinion of musicologists, worldwide, the gospel recordings are better than the blues ones because of 40 years of practice.

Not surprised, I am still disillusioned by the insensitivity of some blues fans who won't accept the evolution of the blues musician from cotton field singing about sex, women, drugs, and death to a higher level of consciousness.

My grandfather evolved, and not only is his work an example of that evolution, I, too, am a product of his remarkable ethnogenesis journey from a farm boy, to a blues guy, to a gospel man.

Frankly, I agree with Rev. Wilkins' granddaughter. I, too, much prefer the rediscovery gospel recordings, they are wonderful and thrilling. The 1968 Memphis Country Blues Festival recording reissued 3 or 4 years ago by Blue Horizon has the single most amazing performance of all, IMHO, "What Do You Think About Jesus?", featuring Rev. Wilkins and several family members in a most spirited and passionate performance featuring acoustic and electric guitar, tambourine and call-and-response male/female vocals. It sends chills down my spine every time I hear it. I find it exceptionally inspiring, which is what great gospel music should do.

Reply Quote

Petway

#8

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 1146

Jun 21 09 6:45 PM

QUOTE (Tom Rushen @ June 21, 2009 05:24 pm)

Will this Wilkins reissue be on the Riverlark label?

Sorry, he did not tell me more. But I doubt it, the shops seems to mainly rely on local sales, I haven't seen many changes on the website in seven years and they haven't even managed to provide a means of online paiement - not mentioning international sales which, according to Andy's phrase, occur "once in a blue moon"! I've been less in touch with him since his teaching job was cancelled by the Memphis authorities a few years ago.

Patrice - Puiseaux (France)

Reply Quote

allenlowe

#9

[-]

Posts: 468

Jul 9 09 12:55 PM

this troubles me:

"Not surprised, I am still disillusioned by the insensitivity of some blues fans who won't accept the evolution of the blues musician from cotton field singing about sex, women, drugs, and death to a higher level of consciousness. "

this shows that the old stereotypes are alive, and that the residual snobbery of later generations of some African American families toward the blues still lives.

I am not really certain if what she describes is an evolution; it seems more like a surrender (or, more charitably, simply a change of philosophy for neither the better nor the worse) -

just my opinion -

Reply Quote

Tom Rushen

#10

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Jul 9 09 2:10 PM

QUOTE (allenlowe @ July 09, 2009 08:55 am)

this troubles me:

"Not surprised, I am still disillusioned by the insensitivity of some blues fans who won't accept the evolution of the blues musician from cotton field singing about sex, women, drugs, and death to a higher level of consciousness. "

this shows that the old stereotypes are alive, and that the residual snobbery of later generations of some African American families toward the blues still lives.

I am not really certain if what she describes is an evolution; it seems more like a surrender (or, more charitably, simply a change of philosophy for neither the better nor the worse) -

just my opinion -

I'm not at all troubled by Rev. Wilkins' granddaughter's remarks. In fact, I'm impressed by them. Her grandfather had very specific moral, ethical and religious reasons why he stopped playing blues and became a preacher and played only gospel songs. You may not agree with her views, but they merit respect, IMHO.

And if we're honest with each other, the "blues life" can be a very hard life, indeed. If I have to choose between living the kind of life that Tommy Johnson lived vs. the kind of life that Rev. Wilkins lived, I'll choose Rev. Wilkins each and every time. Unfortunately, the "Tommy Johnson" lifestyle is far too prevalent in blues history to be glossed over or swept under the rug.

Reply Quote

Petway

#11

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 1146

Jul 9 09 4:32 PM

I did not want to comment upon these bitter and wicked words, which boil down to "don't buy this record unless you're a sinner", but Mrs Mary E. 'Lane' Wilkins (or the guy impersonating her) was not replying to any other Amazon reviewer, only dropped in there to attack whoever considered that Robert Wilkins' pre-war blues recordings were of any interest, as Wilkins did himself when he was rediscovered. "Desillusioned" is the weak form, just to seduce possible readers, "offended" is the first adjective she uses, and it sums up the unmasked part!

The excuse of some unknown, unheard of, and obviously unnamed "musicologists'" opinion is only a hypocrite way to dissimulate the typical attitude of people who, even in 1928, considered any secular music as the work of the devil. "A higher degree of consciousness" has nothing to do with a secular musician's way of living, it deals with the content of the songs which she obviouly blames, considering religious music as obviously "superior".
People keep singing about sex, women, drugs, and death even nowadays, so it has nothing to do with the evolution of music, society, or the rights which black folks fought for and won, it's just a way of rejecting a fascinating expression of human reality, with the poor (and insulting indeed) rhetorics about the "cotton fields", suggesting that lovers of pre-war blues inherited a good deal of pre-war racism.

The art of turning one's personal taste into an absolute judgement, not only on the music, but also on all others. I am "not surprised" either, by such a typical profession of... intolerance.

"If I sing the blues and I tell the truth, what have I done, what have I committed? I haven't lied... so it's just a frame of mind that people are in."
(Henry Townsend)

Patrice - Puiseaux (France)

Reply Quote

7848393

#12

[-]

Posts: 45

Jul 9 09 5:26 PM

"I am "not surprised" either, by such a typical profession of... intolerance."
I agree many old prejudices still linger,even though we now live in more"enlightened"times!.
Robert Wilkin`s pre-war recordings were superb,i think,as are his rediscovery
recordings.He was a supreme artist-i hope his Piedmont recordings are reissued,the sooner the better,they are wonderful.
t`tom.

Reply Quote

Tom Rushen

#13

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Jul 9 09 6:26 PM

QUOTE (Petway @ July 09, 2009 12:32 pm)

I am "not surprised" either, by such a typical profession of... intolerance.

Patrice, I respect you a lot, but I disagree (respectfully) with what you have written here.

I also think it is important to consider the possibility that intolerance is a two-way street, goes both ways. I've seen several posts here in this thread that castigate Rev. Wilkins' granddaughter as intolerant, and yet those same posts have a significant measure of intolerance in them, too.

Is it not possible to disagree with Rev. Wilkins' granddaughter, while respecting her contrary opinion, too?

I believe it is possible, though it appears I may be fairly alone on that score.

Reply Quote

Pan

#14

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 677

Jul 9 09 6:56 PM

This interesting thread on Weenie Campbell might give some insight for what the working conditions were for a blues musician in Memphis, at the day.

http://weeniecampbell.com/mambo/index.php?...28&topic=2584.0

I, for one, no longer am surprised that one would want to leave the so called "blues life" in question, and do something else instead.

Reply Quote

Petway

#15

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 1146

Jul 9 09 7:04 PM

QUOTE (Tom Rushen @ July 09, 2009 06:26 pm)

I've seen several posts here in this thread that castigate Rev. Wilkins' granddaughter as intolerant, and yet those same posts have a significant measure of intolerance in them, too.

Sorry, Tom, I haven't. Please tell me where, and who, this thread consists in 13 previous posts which I've thoroughly read again, and no-one before me talked about intolerance.
You've been supporting your own preference for Wilkins' post-war, religious material, which is OK as far as personal taste is concerned, and your opinion was not followed by any negative or even reverse comment.
Mrs Wilkins sent a comment to Amazon.com about a pre-war blues reissue, claiming she was offended whereas no reviewer had made a single allusion or comparison to Wilkins' post-war work, attacking people she does not name, and making a general, insulting statement about people who prefer blues to Gospel songs, period.

Patrice - Puiseaux (France)

Reply Quote

Tom Rushen

#16

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Jul 9 09 7:19 PM

Patrice, I respectfully suggest that when you use words like "bitter and wicked words" to describe Rev. Wilkins' granddaughter's view of her grandfather's blues recordings, I believe you demonstrate the very kind of intolerance that you accuse her of possessing.

When Allen Lowe uses words like "snobbery" and "stereotypical" to describe Rev. Wilkins' granddaughter's views, it too appears to be a form of intolerance on his part.

I don't expect you or Allen Lowe to agree with Rev. Wilkins' granddaughter, but I respectfully suggest you might want to consider the possibility that her viewpoint merits more respect than you or Mr. Lowe are giving it.

At the heart of this is, of course, the subject of religion (as practiced by Rev. Wilkins and his granddaughter), vs. the blues.

I'm the last person in the world qualified to argue scriptural/religious matters, trust me on that one...

But I also feel a need to stand up in support of the worth and dignity of the life that Rev. Wilkins led, and the example he set, because it is a powerful and positive one. His granddaughter's pride in him merits my respect, too. Pan's link to the weeniecampbell article on the realities of Beale Street in the 1930s provides a window into the reasons why Rev. Wilkins made the life change that he did.

Reply Quote

Muddylives

#17

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 5139

Jul 10 09 4:32 AM

It all seems pretty simple to me. Ms. Wilkins' appears to be championing her grandfather's later gospel recordings over the older blues sides for essentially religious reasons, i.e. that sacred gospel music is inherently superior to earthly blues, and a successful transition from the latter to the former is something that should be celebrated in any case. The line about "more practice" seems thrown in as something tangential to the argument.

Unlike Allen, I don't find her statement to be surprising at all. Those attitudes are still alive and well among many devote Christians, particularly in the South. A deeply religious person herself, Ms. Wilkins obviously feels more comfortable about that side of her grandfather's legacy.

Muddy

Reply Quote

Petway

#18

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 1146

Jul 10 09 9:49 AM

Respecting people in real life, whatever their beliefs, is one thing, submitting one's judgement to a confusing mixture of personal prejudices and wrong assertions is another. Unless I should consider the accusation of intolerance as a moderator's comment which invalidates whatever I previously wrote, I am afraid I will (quite respectfully

) reject it.

I used two distinct words because I have no equivalent for the French "fielleux", and I think both objectively apply to the content of the person's message. Bitternes is obviously expressed by such words as "desillusion", and if stating that people who value Robert Wilkins' pre-war recordings are "simply looking for the pleasure that comes from listening to the old phraselogy" is a friendly generalization, I must have missed something.

I do not see any intolerance in stating the obvious, like Muddy has just done. It is perfecly OK and, as I suppose everyone agrees, "respectable", for Mrs Wilkins to feel uneasy while hearing certain lyrics, even to blame them, and to consider that music should not be used for anything else than worship, or at least that religious music is absolutely superior to secular music. I just hope there is no offense in making these points clear, and I would respect Mrs. Wilkins' arguments if she did not feel forced to add extra comments which place the discussion on a completely different ground, referring to imaginary musicologists, and what she calls "common sense", so as to give her personal preferences the appearance of objectivity.

Regular practice is no guarantee of improvement or perfection, anyone having heard Andr�s Segovia in the 80's could testify. It is even a wonder that Wilkins could achieve such mastery of his instrument in the 60's, because either Paul Oliver is a liar, or the Reverend claimed himself that he had not touched his guitar for decades when he and David Evans visited him (1).
I do not know if his decision to become a minister in 1950 resulted from very specific moral, ethical and religious reasons, which would be indeed quite respectable again, but if we accept the idea of personal evolution, they cannot be exactly the same, specific reasons for which he decided to quit music 14 years earlier, scared to death by a fight which occured while he was playing for a private party in Hernando in 1936.
I do not think the event acted as a sudden revelation either, since like several other known blues singers (thinking of Bo Carter or Henry Townsend) and probably a lot more unknown ones who did not necessarily turn to the church, Robert Wilkins managed to stay away from alcohol, drugs, and gambling, even when he was active in and around Memphis.

Besides that, and the interest we can have in the real person behind the musician, it is a strange and strong temptation to always link talent to the way the artist lived... as far as I am concerned, I am not more impressed by Wilkins' religious commitment than by Tommy Johnson's reputation of a suicidal, heavy drinker, I am impressed by the depth of their music, the intensity of their vocal rendition, the fascinating rhythms and modes, the compelling dialog with their instruments...

Times were hard for everyone in the pre-war era, and even worse for the victims of segregation, be they muscians or not; admitting that these times gave birth to one of the most fascinating corpus of music, be it religious or secular (and from a purely musical point of view, there is no major difference in Wilkins' style in the 60's), does not mean idealizing a thoroughly violent period, or wishing to go back to plantation days. Most of the early blues researchers were also fervent supporters of the civil rights movement, who did not only contribute to racial equality in words, but also in deeds, so I think the accusation is perfectly unfair and dogmatic.

(1) "I just hang it on the wall, said I'm not going to play any more."
Nor did he, for nearly thirty years.

(Paul Oliver, notes to Wolf WSE 111)

Patrice - Puiseaux (France)

Reply Quote

Tom Rushen

#19

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Jul 10 09 11:52 AM

QUOTE (Petway @ July 10, 2009 05:49 am)

I used two distinct words because I have no equivalent for the French "fielleux", and I think both objectively apply to the content of the person's message. Bitternes is obviously expressed by such words as "desillusion"

An interesting perspective, Patrice, and your explanation about your choice of words does illustrate the difficulties of communicating across languages.

The words "wicked" and "bitter" as you used them have very pejorative and negative connotations in the English language. If it was not your intent to color your meaning in that way, that clarifies your intent for me considerably.

What I saw in your post, though, was an expression of distaste for her views, to the point that you suggested that it was "some guy" who wrote her review at amazon.com....your suggestion that it wasn't her appears to be an attempt to discredit her words.

It also indicates that you haven't read Rev. Wilkins' granddaughter's book about her grandfather, called "To Profit A Man", published in 1995. In that book, Lane Wilkins talks about the moral, ethical and religious choices that her grandfather made in life, why he made them, and reflects on the pride she and her family take in the life he led. I think if you had read that book, you would have been less likely to suggest that "some guy" wrote the amazon post, because the views (whether you agree with them or not) are very similar.

Reply Quote

Petway

#20

[-]

Deepest Blue

Posts: 1146

Jul 10 09 12:29 PM

No, I had not heard of that book... and I am very suspicious of identities on the Net when a single occurence can be found.
And sorry, the pejorative and negative connotation was intended, which maybe is not done, but matched the feeling I had while reading the comment.
I accept the blame for being aggressive, not intolerant.

Patrice - Puiseaux (France)

Reply Quote

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Add Reply

Yuku free message boards

Rev. Robert Wilkins' 1964 Piedmont album

Rev. Robert Wilkins' 1964 Piedmont album