Wayne Shorter in The Jazz Club Forum

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Wayne Shorter

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Tom 1960

Wayne Shorter

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 6152

Oct 21 07 12:49 AM

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I just did a search here and couldn't seem to locate any threads where we've had any in depth discussions on Wayne Shorter. Well, I just started one now. I've been on a Wayne Shorter kick the past few days. Listening to nothing but his releases as a leader for Blue Note. So here's an opportunity to discuss alot more than just his Blue Note recordings. Wanna talk about his days with Miles? Have at it. His days in Weather Report? I'm interested. His recent recordings? Let's get some discussions going!

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Muddylives

#1

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Deepest Blue

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Oct 21 07 6:55 AM

Wayne Shorter is a monster artist, composer, saxophone player!

It is a shame that his productivity fell so sharply after he left Miles, although he still dropped a masterpiece here and there.

Although Weather Report did some interesting stuff, I am not sure if that was the best outlet for Wayne. I get the feeling that he could have accomplished more in another context. What do other people think?

Here is one record that is somewhat off the beaten track, but should be on the radar screen of Wayne Shorter fans. I once listened to almost all of Wayne in chronological order, both leader and sideman appearences. When I came to this album, it just blew my mind. I consider it to be one of the great recorded moments of Art Blakey, especially for Wayne: 1961 Paris Olympia. The concert has been released in many forms, most recently like this:

user posted image

Among other great sideman appearances for Wayne, Miles Davis at the Plugged Nickel is also a real standout, from all points of view.

Muddy

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Blue Trane

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Deepest Blue

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Oct 21 07 10:58 AM

One of my favorite Shorter albums from his fusion period is Native Dancer with Herbie Hancock and Milton Nascimento. It always brings out the meditative side of my nature as it is a very Romantic (i.e. poetic) release. I also enjoy his duet album with Herbie: 2+2. I had the good fortune to see the two of them live at an East St Louis celebration of what would have been Miles' 75th birthday. Too bad there's not even a bootleg of that performance!

Alegria has to be my favorite of his Verve releases. The band is sharp and contains IMO some of Wayne's best writing in recent years.

Actually, I've only heard one Shorter session I was thoroughly disappointed in-his Grammy nominated (?) release with programmed synthesizers -I can't even recall the name of this as I sold it to my used CD store. Otherwise, he's been as consistently interesting for me as Sonny Rollins, who recorded several duds for Milestone. One advantage of being ADD is that I can usually forget the miscues and only retain my favorites.

Peace,

Jeff T

St Louis, MO
" Jazz is the music of the freedom of collective improvisation."- Duke Ellington in Music Is My Mistress.

“I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues.”
Duke Ellington quote

It is from the blues that all that may be called American music derives its most distinctive character.-James Weldon Johnson

"And what gift of America to the rest of the world is actually most appreciated by the rest of the world? It is African-American jazz and its offshoots. What is my definition of jazz? 'Safe sex of the highest order.'"-Kurt Vonnegut

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Swinger

#3

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Posts: 63

Oct 21 07 8:55 PM

All of his Blue Note albums are excellent and he really shined in Miles Davis' Quintet. He contributed some really wonderful solos in Weather Report albums and apart from his 1974 album Native Dancer his solo albums are quite dull (1974--->present). They have some great moments but as whole they don't do much to me.

My favorite Blue Notes are Juju and Speak No Evil. It's really hard to choose which one is better.

I'm not a big classical music fan but it really warms my heart when I listen to his interpretation of Sibelius' Valste Triste on The Soothsayer

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Muddylives

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Oct 23 07 4:16 AM

QUOTE (Blue Trane @ Oct 21 2007, 10:58 AM)

One of my favorite Shorter albums from his fusion period is Native Dancer with Herbie Hancock and Milton Nascimento. It always brings out the meditative side of my nature as it is a very Romantic (i.e. poetic) release. I also enjoy his duet album with Herbie: 2+2. I had the good fortune to see the two of them live at an East St Louis celebration of what would have been Miles' 75th birthday. Too bad there's not even a bootleg of that performance!

Alegria has to be my favorite of his Verve releases. The band is sharp and contains IMO some of Wayne's best writing in recent years.

Actually, I've only heard one Shorter session I was thoroughly disappointed in-his Grammy nominated (?) release with programmed synthesizers -I can't even recall the name of this as I sold it to my used CD store. Otherwise, he's been as consistently interesting for me as Sonny Rollins, who recorded several duds for Milestone. One advantage of being ADD is that I can usually forget the miscues and only retain my favorites.

Peace,

Jeff T

Yea, Native Dancer is a beauty.

The album that disappointed you was probably High Life. Given the instrumentation, I don't enjoy much listening to that one either. But I have jazz musician-composer friends who swear that High Life is an absoultely masterpiece from the point of view of jazz composition. And who am I to argue with them.

Muddy

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lowell X

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Oct 23 07 8:41 AM

Wayne Shorter is a beautiful cat, and IMHO a great composer whose "style" is being used to death by many, many younger players who are putting out recordings today.
Everybody seems to want to sound like Miles' ESP, or Miles Smiles or a variation thereof...
I've loved many things I've heard through Wayne Shorter, but as a horn player, today, Pharoah rules the den.

As far as a horn player, I think Wayne sort of went, Well, I'm not gonna sound like Trane, and he looked for another direction.

Interesting little sidebar, Wayne is from Newark, and when he was in high school, if stuff got odd, or weird, it was "weird."
But if it was REALLY weird, it was called "weirder than Wayne."

Even though the Moon is smaller than the Earth, it is farther away-- Ernie Kovaks

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Muddylives

#6

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Oct 24 07 5:02 AM

QUOTE (lowell X @ Oct 23 2007, 08:41 AM)

I've loved many things I've heard through Wayne Shorter, but as a horn player, today, Pharoah rules the den.

Have you given this news to Sonny yet?

Muddy

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lowell X

#7

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Oct 24 07 9:15 AM

Yeah, I told him.
He winked.

You know what's weird, I don't even know who is alive anymore.
Is Billy Harper still standing? What about Frank Foster?
I am tired of reading the obiturary column to find the latest news.

At any rate, Wayne is Wayne, and he dosen't have to climb any hill anywhere.

And I'm glad for everything.

Even though the Moon is smaller than the Earth, it is farther away-- Ernie Kovaks

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Muddylives

#8

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Deepest Blue

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Oct 24 07 11:09 AM

QUOTE (lowell X @ Oct 24 2007, 09:15 AM)

Yeah, I told him.
He winked.

You know what's weird, I don't even know who is alive anymore.
Is Billy Harper still standing? What about Frank Foster?
I am tired of reading the obiturary column to find the latest news.

At any rate, Wayne is Wayne, and he dosen't have to climb any hill anywhere.

And I'm glad for everything.

Billy Harper is very much alive, still under 60 (I believe), and still going strong. Check HIM out for yourself.

As far as I know, Frank Foster is still alive as well, although he should be close to 80 by now.

So is Von Freeman, and he is still kicking strong!

Lee Konitz is another horn giant who has kept the magic into old age.

Muddy

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Jimmer

#9

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 567

Oct 25 07 9:32 PM

I like all of Wayne's Blue Note leader albums from the 1960s except for The All Seeing Eye and Schizophrenia (which I haven't heard). Other albums where he's a sideman that I think are stellar are Lee Morgan's The Gigolo and Freddie Hubbard's Here To Stay. One that I'm curious about is Donald Byrd's Free Form. Does anyone have it?

Also, I'd like to get some more of the albums Wayne recorded with Blakey, but I don't know where to start. I own Free For All and Buhaina's Delight. What Blakey albums do people think have Wayne's best moments?

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imbenurnot

#10

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Posts: 357

Oct 25 07 9:34 PM

A Night in Tunisia has Shorter on it, and the album is nothing short of spectacular.

Blue Condtion

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WorldB3

#11

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Posts: 353

Oct 26 07 12:00 AM

Wayne is one of my top three musicians of all time.

All of the Blues Notes I think are all classics except for two that I couldn�t get into which are All Seeing Eye and Super Nova. The Miles recordings are seminal and it�s hard to beat anything he did with the Jazz Messengers.

A recent live recording from 2002 which I think stands up with his 60�s Blue Note records is Footprints Live.

From the Amazon review which I pretty much agree with:

The only thing more astonishing than the originality and complexity of tenor saxophonist-composer Wayne Shorter's music is that this CD is his first live recording as a leader. Captured in Europe in the summer of 2001, Shorter's compositions are reinvented by Danilo Perez's sterling pianisms, John Patitucci's rock-steady bass lines, and drummer Brian Blade's stunning synthesis of Elvin Jones and Tony Williams' styles. "Masquelero," "Sanctuary," and the hypnotic "Footprints" are resurrected from his stint in Miles Davis's '60s combos. "Go," the African-derived "Juju," and Shorter's ingenious arrangement of Jean Sibelius's "Valse Triste" come from his Blue Note LPs of the same era.

user posted image

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Tom 1960

#12

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Deepest Blue

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Oct 26 07 12:57 AM

Jimmer, I own Free Form. I bought the album initially more because of Donald Byrd. However, Shorter does shine on this release and I can easily recommend this release if you wish to further explore Wayne's playing. The album also benefits from a strong lineup which also features Herbie Hancock, Butch Warren and Billy Higgins.

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Jimmer

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Deepest Blue

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Oct 26 07 2:50 AM

Thanks for the input guys. I may give A Night In Tunisia and Footprints Live a try! I forgot all about Super Nova, which is another one I don't own. From the samples on cduniverse, though, it sounds even more out there than The All Seeing Eye - probably a bit too much for me.

Free Form definitely appeals to me because of Byrd, too. Lately, I've been listening to more of him than any other trumpeter. I should probably buy back-up copies of The Cat Walk and Royal Flush the next time I hit a music store!

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