So Barry Bonds is the New Home Run King... in Sport Forum

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So Barry Bonds is the New Home Run King...

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tanta07

So Barry Bonds is the New Home Run King...

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 9133

Aug 8 07 2:44 PM

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As much as thought Bonds hitting number 756 would be a pinnacle moment in sports history (for better or worse), I found that when it finally arrived, I just kind of shrugged my shoulders and moved on. We've been on "Bonds watch" for what seems like years now, and it seemed like a forgone conclusion that he would eventually break the record. Now that he has, it feels anticlimactic.

What are your thoughts?

The Buzz Brothers Band

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tanta07

#1

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 9133

Aug 8 07 2:50 PM

Here's an article that sums up my feelings pretty well:

Yahoo Sports

The Buzz Brothers Band

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Tom Rushen

#2

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Aug 8 07 2:56 PM

I'm a lifelong, hardcore 45 years+ baseball fan, and I have completely ignored the Bonds home run derby this year, I'm so disgusted.

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TheClubman

#3

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 3636

Aug 8 07 3:03 PM

My thoughts?

I am not going to go on a rant about this one, but to sum up... anyone who uses Steroids or any other type of performance enhancing drugs (is there any qualification needed here???

) should not go down in the record books. Give them their own record classification (ie, unnatural) and if you wanna put them in the same books as real people, put in a footnote stating they used something!

Templeton, MA (in the stix)

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Delta Drifter

#4

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 938

Aug 8 07 3:07 PM

While I think that Yahoo article ia 'sour grapes', the writer said "Bonds didn't need the juice.........". Well then, maybe the record is his after all. Last night's crowd seemed to agree.

A couple points to remember.........

No one else has hit that many.

And, nowhere have I read that Steriods or whatever he is accused of taking does anything to promote hand and eye coordination.

Think I will wait for the final report of what really has transpired. That will be awhile and the fact that Steriods have not always been illegal is only going to add to the mix.

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rshurman

#5

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 3244

Aug 8 07 3:17 PM

I recently read "Game Of Shadows" and it doesn't leave much doubt. Supposedly the NY Times says indictments are expected next month. Nice that Barry says the record isn't tainted but I'd prefer a more objectve source, especially if he gets charged with perjury. I'm glad the focus is over for a bit, at least.

Chicagoland

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tanta07

#6

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 9133

Aug 8 07 3:20 PM

QUOTE (Delta Drifter @ Aug 8 2007, 03:07 PM)

While I think that Yahoo article ia 'sour grapes', the writer said "Bonds didn't need the juice.........". Well then, maybe the record is his after all.

I think he's referring to the pre-1998 (the year Bonds allegedly started juicing) Barry Bonds. Barry Bonds was a no doubt first ballot hall-of-famer long before there were suspicions of steroid use. He was a natural talent, born to be a ballplayer. He was a five tool guy. That's why it mystifies a lot of people that would choose, in the twilight of his career, to turn himself into a hulking power hitter. Had Barry not touched the juice, he would have glided into the Hall of Fame without a problem. Now I have my doubts.

The Buzz Brothers Band

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tanta07

#7

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 9133

Aug 8 07 3:23 PM

QUOTE (Delta Drifter @ Aug 8 2007, 03:07 PM)

And, nowhere have I read that Steriods or whatever he is accused of taking does anything to promote hand and eye coordination.

Indeed, hitting a major league fastball is something that can't be artificially enhanced; either you can or you can't. Barry Bonds always had exceptional coordination and bat speed. However, steroids make you stronger. Stronger + one's natural ability to hit a baseball = more home runs.

The Buzz Brothers Band

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Bluerider

#8

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Posts: 787

Aug 8 07 3:30 PM

You mean Barroids? Shame on the San Francisco Giants for throwing their season so Barroids can make tainted history. If Selig had any balls he would put the Giant organization on probation.. Is Bonds good for baseball? Hell no! He's a carnival freak and snake oil drummer for BALCO.

Can someone please tell me how a man in his late 30's can grow his feet 3 shoe sizes bigger? Just ain't natural.

Hats off to Henry "Hammerin' Hank" Aaron for his stand on Barroids. Refused to attend the record breaking game or partake in any of the festivities. Henry did it clean. (well he did pay a video tribute)

- i owe a little girl a psychotic reaction -

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tanta07

#9

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 9133

Aug 8 07 3:30 PM

QUOTE (tanta07 @ Aug 8 2007, 03:23 PM)

QUOTE (Delta Drifter @ Aug 8 2007, 03:07 PM)

And, nowhere have I read that Steriods or whatever he is accused of taking does anything to promote hand and eye coordination.

Indeed, hitting a major league fastball is something that can't be artificially enhanced; either you can or you can't. Barry Bonds always had exceptional coordination and bat speed. However, steroids make you stronger. Stronger + one's natural ability to hit a baseball = more home runs.

Actually, I take part of that back. HGH, part of the cocktail Bonds is said to use, actually improves your eyesight, which could certainly help with hitting a baseball.

The Buzz Brothers Band

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rshurman

#10

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 3244

Aug 8 07 3:50 PM

QUOTE (tanta07 @ Aug 8 2007, 09:30 AM)

QUOTE (tanta07 @ Aug 8 2007, 03:23 PM)

QUOTE (Delta Drifter @ Aug 8 2007, 03:07 PM)

And, nowhere have I read that Steriods or whatever he is accused of taking does anything to promote hand and eye coordination.

Indeed, hitting a major league fastball is something that can't be artificially enhanced; either you can or you can't. Barry Bonds always had exceptional coordination and bat speed. However, steroids make you stronger. Stronger + one's natural ability to hit a baseball = more home runs.

Actually, I take part of that back. HGH, part of the cocktail Bonds is said to use, actually improves your eyesight, which could certainly help with hitting a baseball.

The book also points out that dramatically reduced recovery time is a major benefit of steroids, so over time there will be more stamina and probably more productivity.

Chicagoland

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kanker

#11

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 724

Aug 8 07 3:59 PM

QUOTE (rshurman @ Aug 8 2007, 11:50 AM)

QUOTE (tanta07 @ Aug 8 2007, 09:30 AM)

QUOTE (tanta07 @ Aug 8 2007, 03:23 PM)

QUOTE (Delta Drifter @ Aug 8 2007, 03:07 PM)

And, nowhere have I read that Steriods or whatever he is accused of taking does anything to promote hand and eye coordination.

Indeed, hitting a major league fastball is something that can't be artificially enhanced; either you can or you can't. Barry Bonds always had exceptional coordination and bat speed. However, steroids make you stronger. Stronger + one's natural ability to hit a baseball = more home runs.

Actually, I take part of that back. HGH, part of the cocktail Bonds is said to use, actually improves your eyesight, which could certainly help with hitting a baseball.

The book also points out that dramatically reduced recovery time is a major benefit of steroids, so over time there will be more stamina and probably more productivity.

Especially at (for professional sports) Barry's advanced age.

web space
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Dan Gould

#12

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Posts: 495

Aug 8 07 4:07 PM

QUOTE (tanta07 @ Aug 8 2007, 03:23 PM)

QUOTE (Delta Drifter @ Aug 8 2007, 03:07 PM)

And, nowhere have I read that Steriods or whatever he is accused of taking does anything to promote hand and eye coordination.

Indeed, hitting a major league fastball is something that can't be artificially enhanced; either you can or you can't. Barry Bonds always had exceptional coordination and bat speed. However, steroids make you stronger. Stronger + one's natural ability to hit a baseball = more home runs.

Not to mention that increased strength=quicker bat speed which equals the ability to wait and judge a pitch for a split second longer.

Not only does that lead to more home runs but it also helps explain why he was a career .288 hitter BS (Before Steroids) and a .300+ hitter afterwards.

IMHO, its a tainted "record" and the sole benefit is that now the true countdown can begin:

Days til he does his perp walk.

Dan

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rshurman

#13

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 3244

Aug 8 07 4:10 PM

Even if one (naively IMHO) accepts that he just muscled up through his arduous workout schedule (and to his credit, he does seem to have been a workout warrior), the book says that not only did his head and hands grow dramatically but his shoe size went from 10 1/2 to 13. Can any of us BBFers say that happened to us in our late 30s? That's classic Human Growth Hormone stuff and they still don't test for it.

Chicagoland

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Tom Rushen

#14

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Aug 8 07 4:19 PM

QUOTE (rshurman @ Aug 8 2007, 12:10 PM)

not only did his head and hands grow dramatically but his shoe size went from 10 1/2 to 13. Can any of us BBFers say that happened to us in our late 30s? That's classic Human Growth Hormone stuff and they still don't test for it.

Bingo.

When I first heard this, I thought it was the most single damning piece of evidence against Bonds short of a lab test.

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TheClubman

#15

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 3636

Aug 8 07 4:31 PM

QUOTE (rshurman @ Aug 8 2007, 12:10 PM)

...his shoe size went from 10 1/2 to 13. Can any of us BBFers say that happened to us in our late 30s? That's classic Human Growth Hormone stuff and they still don't test for it.

I can say my feet have gotten to be MAYBE 3/4 a size larger... in my 40's though and this is not uncommon. It is a part of aging and my feet are not growing... they are just beginning to flatten out a bit, making them longer.

My feet used to be a 12-1/2 and now they are about a 13-1/4

Waddaya think of that, Brat?

Templeton, MA (in the stix)

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bentheharpman

#16

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 1365

Aug 8 07 4:37 PM

Aaron will always be my champ.

As for someone not hitting that many, well that's speculation, and has been for years. Josh Gibson of the Negro Leagues has an unconfirmed 820 career home runs.

I wish they could confirm all these older records from those leagues because, Cy Young and Aaron and Bonds would look like chumps compared to those guys.

I've been very displeased about baseball's handling of the whole situation. Cheating in baseball has been going on for a long, long time. Ty Cobb, the Niekro brothers, Gaylord Perry, hell even Sammy Sosa.

To me, if you are going to start going after folks using steroids, use a precedent and then start banning all cheaters period. Not just the ones who use a "performance enhancing substance." Bonds can't see the ball as well as he does and use hand-eye coordination better because of steroids. It's only the length the ball will fly that enhances any part of his game. To me, Bonds stopped being any kind of a Hall of Famer after he bulked up, stopped playing the outfield, stopped stealing bases, and started padding his stats on teams that haven't gone anywhere close to the Series in the playoffs. McGwire can at least say he won a World Series. I can't remember if Palmeiro did. Giambi at least went with the Yankees. Bonds can't even say that. Bonds can't even say that he has the fan following that the rest has had because of his demeanor.

The record is broken. It's done with. How about the rest of the season with pennant & wild card chases? How about Tom Glavine hitting 300 wins, and may be the last one to do that? No one seems to bother except us true fans.

Leave your ego, play the music, love the people.
---Luther Allison

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Delta Drifter

#17

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 938

Aug 8 07 4:42 PM

Hey....I am not defending Bonds (nor am I naive) - but it is obvious that I don't know a tenth of his history like many here seem to. So, please share the sources that might have a direct bearing on his habit(s) And shoe size doesn't work.

The increase in his batting average was about 1.4 % - a good hitting Coach can obtain more than that. No positive tests yet reveled on substance use and to me that is the real proof.

Even tho he is past a prime point, could one think that if Steriods were so effective that he just might be in the top 7 in either batting, hits or home runs this season?
I know, a lot of this was acomplished in a previous period (2000 - 20004 I think) but that was only around 260 homeruns. Would think that "Roids" would have a longer lasting effect?

Now, while I would like to think, and probably do, that Mr. AAron was 'clean', where is it written that he was?

I realize that Bonds only needed a couple dozen HR's this year to break the record and no doubt was a major reason for bringing him back (Gate receipts, souvies, beer, hotdog sales, etc) the fact remains he has broken the record and until absolute proof is provided that he cheated, no asterik should be placed by his name. That can be done at a later date if proven. To believe otherwise is to assume and that to me, is naive.

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tanta07

#18

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 9133

Aug 8 07 4:50 PM

QUOTE (bentheharpman @ Aug 8 2007, 04:37 PM)

How about Tom Glavine hitting 300 wins, and may be the last one to do that? No one seems to bother except us true fans.

This is off topic, but why are so many people saying Glavine is the last guy to get 300 wins? The statement doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Granted, he's probably the last one for a while; no active major leaguers are near the mark, except for Randy Johnson, whose career is likely over.

The Buzz Brothers Band

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Blues Boss

#19

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 11144

Aug 8 07 5:04 PM

And....6-7 years from now we can "go on watch" again for A-ROD .... Probably without the 'steriods' issue, but with the "Pompous, Self-Centered, D*ckhead" arguments......

If and when Barry is 'officially' caught, then it will be interesting to see how Baseball handles the entire issue.

"I�m talkin� about: primal jankety-ass rattlin� and buzzin� raw music that sounds like they used some boxes and tubs for drums. No, it ain�t right. But the blues ain�t right. Never has been. Never will be!...." ----- Sherman

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tanta07

#20

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 9133

Aug 8 07 5:12 PM

QUOTE (Blues Boss @ Aug 8 2007, 05:04 PM)

If and when Barry is 'officially' caught, then it will be interesting to see how Baseball handles the entire issue.

And THAT'S the sticky part, isn't it? This is the mess baseball has made for itself by ignoring steroid use up to now. Personally, I would leave the records books as is, because there's no way to separate the "clean" homers from the "juiced" homers, but I would bar his entry into the Hall of Fame. He can have the record he wanted enough to cheat for, but he won't be allowed to stand next to the best players ever in the Hall.

And the sportswriters may do just that. They already passed McGwire over on his first ballot for the Hall.

The Buzz Brothers Band

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So Barry Bonds is the New Home Run King...

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