Discovered a "Legend" Who Doesn't Do It For Me in Post War Blues Forum

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Discovered a "Legend" Who Doesn't Do It For Me

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Dan Gould

Discovered a "Legend" Who Doesn't Do It For Me

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Posts: 495

Nov 11 06 10:45 PM

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As I've mentioned, I consider myself a newbie to blues, even though I've listened to B.B. King for a long time and have known artists like Ronnie Earl for a while too.

So, finding my blues discoveries (Albert King, Freddie King, Jimmy McCracklin among others) so exciting, I've been spending money like a drunken sailor and yesterday picked up an MCA two-fer of Howlin' Wolf's first two LPs. I gave it a listen today, and damn if I wasn't for the first time thinking "what can I get if I trade this in?"

The accompaniment is fine but I cannot get into Wolf's vocals. I can take technically unskilled voices if they're expressive, but I'm not feeling the expression and I'm definitely not getting in tune with the gruff/flatness of it all.

So ... why bring this up and risk a public lashing? Well ... I guess the idea is two-fold:

If someone wants to tell me what I'm missing, go for it
and
If anyone else wants to step up and admit there's a "legend" who you just don't dig, feel free to push me out of this uncomfortable spotlight I just put on myself.

Dan

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Tom Rushen

#1

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Nov 11 06 11:28 PM

Actually, I think a number of blues artists are 'acquired' tastes, and I'm not especially surprised that Wolf's voice doesn't do it for you. I find his later stuff after 1960 seriously irritating, such as crap like "300 Pounds of Joy". For me, his scary vocals on the early records, accompanied by the wild, chaotic band (and crude recording techniques) make for fascinating listening, but I cannot listen to his music every day!

The first time I heard Charley Patton circa 1969, I had two thoughts: "What is this shit?" and "Every song sounds the same." But I gave it a few extra listens, and Patton's spectacular bottleneck piece "Spoonful Blues" converted me into the ultimate CP diehard.

As for legends that DO NOT do it for me, I likely have a lot of company with this man:

Buddy Guy.

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Graham Henderson

#2

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Posts: 1447

Nov 11 06 11:28 PM

It happenes.
I can't recall now what I didn't like about Howling Wolf, but I do know the Cd I have of him is in the forget it pile.
Almost the same with Tom Wait on that one too.
I bought a Cde of him because a few people said i remind them of him, and yep.
I hated his voice almost as I much as i hate my own.
The Cd has a few songs on it i do believe he does well is all that saved it from becoming a frisbie.
It is called personal preffeerances, and the world is a beter place that we all have, and are allowed to have them i am sure.
Graham

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=7032

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tanta07

#3

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 9133

Nov 11 06 11:38 PM

Like Tom said, nearly every blues heavyweight has fans, and then people who don't get what all the fuss is about, and it's all just a matter of taste. Personally, I find Wolf's vocals to be mind-blowing, like he was a genetic freak that was engineered in a lab to sing blues music.

There's plenty of legends who don't trip my trigger, like Mississippi John Hurt. I find his music to be good, and expertly played, but his stuff usually doesn't give me that gut-level visceral reaction that I get when I hear my favorite artists.

Another one? Blind Willie McTell. His guitar playing is great, arrangements are great, lyrics are great, but I cant' stomach his singing voice for extended periods. Too nasally and whiny for my taste.

I don't think there's anything unusual about not liking someone who is recognized as a "legend." The blues genre is so vast that there's going to be flavors you like, and others than you don't.

The Buzz Brothers Band

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Tom Rushen

#4

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Nov 11 06 11:42 PM

QUOTE (tanta07 @ Nov 11 2006, 07:38 PM)

There's plenty of legends who don't trip my trigger, like Mississippi John Hurt. I find his music to be good, and expertly played, but his stuff usually doesn't give me that gut-level visceral reaction that I get when I hear my favorite artists.

Add me to that list.

I completely _respect_ MJH as one of the greats. But he bores me to absolute tears, and always has.

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Stevo

#5

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Posts: 2554

Nov 11 06 11:51 PM

See why we all like it here Dan? You showed a lot of chutzpah with that post. Way to go.

No note too small

My Space

Truckbody Jones

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igotdabluze

#6

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 4762

Nov 11 06 11:55 PM

That's why they put knobs on the radio.............................

Age is mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter.
Satchel Paige........

Libertyville.Illinois...

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CoyoteSlim

#7

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 1973

Nov 12 06 12:32 AM

Wolf's vocals (and Charlie Patton's) are definately acquired tastes. When I first heard both of them I didn't like them. But I kind of put them aside for a while, and when I played them again I said "wow!" Sometimes music is like wine; you got to open the bottle at the right time.

Coyote Slim's website

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Rabbit told the 'possum, shake them 'simmons down."

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TelecasterSteve

#8

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Posts: 308

Nov 12 06 12:52 AM

I love Mississippi John Hurt now but when I first heard him I was kind of disappointed. I didn't really pay attention to how great his guitar playing was. I didn't like his voice. I was used to gruff, boisterous blues vocals and Hurt's vocals are certainly not that. But after listening to him again a couple months ago I grew to appreciate both his guitar playing and his vocals.

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Graham Henderson

#9

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Posts: 1447

Nov 12 06 1:04 AM

LOL.
Thanks irgotblues.
Ohhhhhh.
Top Shelf Man
Copyright � Graham Henderson APRA 2006
They put knobs on radios.
To turn them off and on.
But on women.
They only work one way.
And I'll be thankful for that.
Until my dying day.
Chorus
I'm a top shelf man.
I can't help myself.
The view up to the balcony.
Works every time for me.
And I can't help myself.
'Cause I'm a top shelf man.

I hope there never comes a time.
I am not engrossed.
In checking out how chicks are stacked.
To see which gets to me the most.
Oh Just thinking 'bout 'em.
Turns me to a post.
Chorus
I'm a top shelf man.
I can't help myself.
The view up to the balcony.
Works every time for me.
And I can't help myself.
'Cause I'm a top shelf man.
Instrumental
Now, I have never seen a set.
That doesn't get to me.
Big or small I love 'em all.
And where I want to be.
Is surrounded by a set of them.
When heading for glory.
Chorus
I'm a top shelf man.
I can't help myself.
The view up to the balcony.
Works every time for me.
And I can't help myself.
'Cause I'm a top shelf man.

Thanks again Bloke.
Graham

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=7032

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hipshaker

#10

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 876

Nov 12 06 4:09 AM

QUOTE (Stevo @ Nov 11 2006, 11:51 PM)

See why we all like it here Dan? You showed a lot of chutzpah with that post. Way to go.

i wouldn't say chutzpah at all. i'd say it tells us about him, not about wolf.
if he doesn't "get it" it says alot---but not about wolf.

clyde

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Hawkeye

#11

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 7329

Nov 12 06 4:43 AM

There's no accounting for taste.

It's called ART ... by definiton (Webster's) ... "the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."

A useful phrase is ... "Ars Gratia Ars" ... "Art For Art's Sake" ... used to convey the idea that the chief or only aim of a work of art is the self-expression of the individual artist who creates it.

So, it follows ... that not everyone who likes painting appreciates/likes Chagall ... or Dali ... or Pollock ... or whatever.

There are many flavors of ice cream ... you don't have to like them ALL ... to enjoy ice cream.

In late 1956 I heard a Howlin' Wolf record on late night AM radio ... the song was "Smokestack Lightin' ... it made a deep and immediate impression on me ... and by 1958, I had a guitar and was off into folk and blues music ... I discovered many 'flavors' of blues along the way ... (I still am) ... some I like more than Wolf ... some a lot less ... but Wolf is the one who originally "flipped my switch" ... and prompted me to spend the rest of my life on the 'blues highway.' Thanks to Howlin' Wolf ... and Big Bill, Lonnie Johnson, Robert Johnson, Memphis Minnie, Blind Lemon, Son House, Muddy, Magic Sam, BB King, Furry Lewis, Bukka White, Kokomo Arnold, Mance Lipscomb, Lightinin' Hopkins, Bukka White, Josh White, John Hurt, Fred McDowell, Bessie Smith, Blind Blake, "Cool Papa", Lowell Fulson, T-Bone ... who were true to themselves within the music .... and to everyone else who laid the groundwork/foundation upon which we all now travel.

"Ars Gratia Ars!!!"

Hawkeye Herman
1998 Blues Foundation "Keeping the Blues Alive" award recipient
Iowa Blues Hall of Fame inductee
Barrymore Award for Excellence in Theatre
"If it's good for the blues, it's good for everyone." - H.H.
www.HawkeyeHerman.com
Hawkeye MP3 downloads
www.CDBaby.com/Hawkeye
Iowa Blues Hall of Fame
Blues Foundation's "Keeping The Blues Alive" Award
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Hawkeye original articles/blues history
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Hawkeye teaches guitar at JamPlay.com
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Hawkeye at BandVillage.com
Hawkeye audio tracks at Soundclick.com

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Sassie

#12

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 19017

Nov 12 06 5:03 AM

This seems to have evolved (somewhat) into a vocals thread. I personally find the Wolf's vox the most haunting in all of bues (that I've discovered so far. Junior Wells being among the sexiest!)

There are alot of (mostly)contemp players who's playing is just fine, but I cannot wrap myself aound the vocals.

Never put off til tomorrow what you can do the day after.

Colorado, USA

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7844473

#13

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 30580

Nov 12 06 7:46 AM

Dan, let me tell it to you straight : when I first heard them, I couldn't take any of them.
Not a single one.
As a kid, the kind of blues that got played home was the sophisticated one, such as Count Basie's, Louis Jordan's, that kind of stuff my Dad was into.
As a teenager, I was into the Woodstock thing, and the closest I ever came to blues music then was Rory Gallagher, Johnny Winter and the likes, but certainly none of the legends.
When my brother who seems to have always dug the most "ancient" kind of blues brought that double LP compilation of blues legends home, I would simply leave the room whenever he played those records.
I only started listening to Muddy or the Wolf or Sonny Terry because Johnny Winter or Clapton was on the records.
I didn't even like BB King then !

And when I first started really getting into blues music, Albert Collins, Johnny Copeland, SRV and Johnny Winter did it for me, not the legends.
It's only when I started searching the origins of the music that I opened my ears and then my heart to the originators.
And this CD you mentionned, I only got myself a copy of it a few years ago, when I was finally ready for some Howlin Wolf.
Now, I keep buying more of those reissues than new artists because even though some of my readers may consider me a knowledgeable source in blues music, it took me years of blues addiction to travel tha path, and I'm still learning.
That's why, if you allow me, I'd like to give you that little piece of advice : don't throw away this CD, don't sell it. Put it away somewhere you can find it when you're ready for it. If you stay on that blues journey, someday you'll love it. And if you don't, sell it then. It'll be out of print and more valuable, buckwise.

Rene
Paris, France.

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Muddylives

#14

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 5155

Nov 12 06 8:13 AM

Dan: It may have to do with the fact that you are coming from jazz and more sophisticated blues approaches. Don't give up on Wolf too soon. The "flatness" that you hear is not really flatness. Wolf hit exactly the pitches that he was trying to hit. In that respect, he was a more sophisticated singer than it might seem at first.

Muddy

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Slim Lively

#15

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 10499

Nov 12 06 8:26 AM

There is so much more to Wolf than just his voice. What a great songwriter and musician. I find his vocals absolutely thrilling and haunting both. One of my favorites of them all. But that doesn't mean everyone has to like everybody for all the same reasons. For example, I may not believe that one of my closest blues friends locally, Terry Robb, has the best voice around, but there is no doubting he is an exhilirating guitarist. I have heard people tell me they couldn't stand Watermelon Slim the first time they heard him. But I told them to listen to what he is saying and not necessarily how he sounds and then listen to his voice again. Those same people came up to me later and told me how much they had missed because the voice had concerned them and now they were quite impressed. Give Wolf a few more spins and like Rene says, put it away if you're still not impressed and come back to it at a later date. It may sound completely different to you then.

Slim Lively

8-time Nominee Cascade Blues Association Muddy Awards
2000, 2008 & 2011 Back What You Believe Recipient
2008 Lifetime Achievement Recipient
2006 Friend of The Blues Foundation Outstanding Achievement Recipient
2-time Nominee Portland Music Awards Outstanding Achievement in Blues (2010 & 2011)
2012 Portland Music Award nominee as producer of Best Compilation Recording, Puddletown Blues, Vol. 1

Portland, OR

". . . And then in the end, it's family and friends, loving yourself, but not only yourself, it's about the good walk and the hard walk, and the young girls you made cry, it's about making a little music everyday 'til you die, it's a beautiful ride . . . " Dewey Cox

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jba

#16

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Posts: 639

Nov 12 06 9:39 AM

Wolf IS the Blues for me. But people's tastes vary.

I love Wolf and his band for the UNslickness and the sheer power they have.

I get pretty bored by a fair bit of 'Classic' blues even when played by the 'masters'.
I can't get into Otis Rush for instance. Or Albert Collins particularly, though I could happily watch a video of either of them. . .

I think a lot of the bad copyist blues artists spoiled the 'real thing ' for me

Also I bought a Hollywood Fats album which has superb guitar on it, but the songs are so tedious, derivitive and lacklustre I can't listen to it!

Jon

My all new and all groovy podcast - Mixed Messages
http://jonsmixmess.blogspot.com/

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Island Blues

#17

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 7831

Nov 12 06 9:46 AM

Well, while we're bearing our souls and risking everlasting damnation, I must confess that most pre-war blues, with very few exceptions, bores me to tears. For me, blues doesn't get interesting until they plugged in and upped the tempo a bit. I generally have the same reaction to most contemporary acoustic blues, with some notable exceptions. I just don't seem to have the patience for it.

Let the flaming begin.

"Reality has a liberal bias." - Stephen Colbert

St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands
18.35 N, 64.9 W

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Dan Gould

#18

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Posts: 495

Nov 12 06 2:51 PM

QUOTE (hipshaker @ Nov 12 2006, 04:09 AM)

QUOTE (Stevo @ Nov 11 2006, 11:51 PM)

See why we all like it here Dan? You showed a lot of chutzpah with that post. Way to go.

i wouldn't say chutzpah at all. i'd say it tells us about him, not about wolf.
if he doesn't "get it" it says alot---but not about wolf.

clyde

You seem to be one of the few not in the "different strokes for different folks" camp, so please tell me exactly what it says about me that I don't "get" Wolf.

Dan

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Stevo

#19

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Posts: 2554

Nov 12 06 3:40 PM

Clyde, I think we've all been where Dan is now. Have a little faith in your fellow man.

No note too small

My Space

Truckbody Jones

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Delta Drifter

#20

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 938

Nov 12 06 3:52 PM

Dan - hang onto the CD, it will grow on you. (and not fungus wise) I admire your openess and I too was somewhat perplexed when I first heard the 'Wolf'.

Comes under the "acquired tast" catagory although.....................and I am half afraid to mention this with all the Johnny Winter Fans here, I don't get the hype about Mr. WInters, not one bit. Maybe if I listened to more of him? I probably am not being fair due to my limited exposure and coming from a huindred years of Jazz listening.

Sooooo, Winter fans, what should I listen to?

Thanks.

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