Drug use in pre-war blues in Pre War Blues Forum

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Drug use in pre-war blues

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steelbull

Drug use in pre-war blues

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Aug 18 06 6:23 PM

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Tom Rushen

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 4476

Aug 18 06 6:36 PM

QUOTE (steelbull @ Aug 18 2006, 06:23 PM)

I have heard that drug use helps with playing an instrument. I have been clean for a few months now and even with all the extra energy I have I still don't play nearly as much as when I was using.

steelbull, while your stamina to play longer while using may be real, are you sure the quality of playing is better? Here's a sincere wish for your continued sobriety.

I've heard more than a few drugged out musicians who played really shitty while using, we all have.

Which leads me to tell an old but all too true joke:

What did one Deadhead say to the other Deadhead when the drugs wore off?

"Boy, does this music suck!"

As to your question about pre-war musicians using: there are plenty of references from the likes of Bessie Smith and other jazz/blues queens. Champion Jack Dupree had a heroin habit, though it may not have been pre-war. Charley Patton sang "spoonful blues" in 1929 which I interpret to be about a cocaine habit. And there are lots more references.

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A Spoonful Supreme

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Aug 18 06 6:42 PM

People still use spoons to cook heroin and other drugs in today, the blues "spoonful" term (though I like to think it means something else) is drug related, I'm pretty sure Patton was an addict, it's not hard to believe. It sure seems as though drugs have played an integral role in expanding music, so sadly I would say yes that drugs have a positive affect on music. But maybe the same affect can be gained by things other than drugs, and drugs are but a cheap method.

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Nap

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Aug 18 06 6:59 PM

When I was in college, I knew a ton of guys who played while they were high. Every one of them thought they were playing better while on drugs. One night I recorded them on a tape recorder and played it back to them while they were straight. Every one of them realized they were playing worse when high even though they felt like they were playing better. The drugs made them feel great which made them THINK they were playing great. The tape pointed out that they were sloppy and unfocused musically when high. The problem is that with alot of musicians we may never know if they would be better straight. Charlie Parker (although not pre-war blues) was said to be able to play amazing stuff on heroin. What we don't know is if he could have been even better if he never touched the stuff.

Nap

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BlusinBrotherGlenn

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Aug 18 06 7:32 PM

I find it very hard to believe that drugs help a person to be better at anything.
That being said, life is not a easy task. To be creative and productive a person needs to balance many things. It may be easier to just say to hell with it and pop a pill. It is hard work to get to the point were you are totaly happy and have the piece of mind you need to just be your natural self. This is something I am still working at, hope this makes some kind of sense ?

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MaskedMarvel

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Aug 18 06 7:39 PM

Many Blues singers were singing about things not nessesserilly related to them personally. It is questionnable wether Patton ever used any drugs. I'm not saying it's impossible he did, just that it's not a nessessity. I for one don't care about drugs and most of the musicians that started abused were becoming lesser than their peak. Hendrix played well before he got into the drugs. I actually believe some of his out of tune stuff was because the stuff he abused. I think drugs were more of the 1950's Jazz scene trend rather than Pre War Blues frequent, because most of the singers were preffering alcohol. Many talked about the alcohol use of musicians but I hardly can recall any drug stories.

All the above written is in my opinion unless it is someone else's opinion, or a fact.

Location: Zur Moshe, Israel

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steelbull

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Aug 18 06 8:48 PM

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JellyRoll Baker

#7

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 2745

Aug 18 06 10:02 PM

QUOTE

Cocaine habit mighty bad
It's the worst old habit that I ever had
Honey take a whiff on me

I went to Mr Beaman's in a lope
Saw a sign on the window said no more dope
Hey, hey, honey take a whiff on me

If you don't believe cocaine is good
Ask Alma Rose at Minglewood
Hey, hey, honey take a whiff on me

I love my whiskey, and I love my gin
But the way I love my coke is a doggone sin
Hey, hey, honey take a whiff on me

Since cocaine went out of style
You can catch them shooting needles all the while
Hey, hey, honey take a whiff on me

It takes a little coke to give me ease
Strut my stuff long as you please
Hey, hey, honey take a whiff on me

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CoyoteSlim

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 1973

Aug 18 06 10:09 PM

QUOTE (Nap @ Aug 18 2006, 06:59 PM)

When I was in college, I knew a ton of guys who played while they were high. Every one of them thought they were playing better while on drugs. One night I recorded them on a tape recorder and played it back to them while they were straight. Every one of them realized they were playing worse when high even though they felt like they were playing better. The drugs made them feel great which made them THINK they were playing great. The tape pointed out that they were sloppy and unfocused musically when high.

Right on.

I've only smoked pot a few times, usually after I was already way too drunk. I remember getting high one time and playing music with some buddies, and remembering that it sounded great at the time, but I'm sure it was really crap. I can't smoke that stuff anymore because of severe allergies -- and besides, who needs to spend that much money on something! Alcohol is expensive enough!

I play better when I'm "soberer." Part of whether drinking affects your playing is your personal tolerance and how much food is in your stomach. If I drank on an empty stomach there's no doubt that I'd play like shit. One or two drinks after a meal doesn't affect me, but any more and my head and hands go into two different worlds.

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steelbull

#9

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Aug 18 06 10:23 PM

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Blueswriter

#10

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Deepest Blue

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Aug 18 06 11:50 PM

QUOTE (steelbull @ Aug 18 2006, 03:48 PM)

What makes you think that alcohol use affects your playing any less than drug use... I truly believe that alcohol affects your playing ability much more than any drugs that I have tried. How many blues guitarist didn't or don't drink?

I honestly can't see where alcohol would be worse for any musician more than the use of drugs (cocaine, heroin, etc.) would be. Tolerance levels differ depending on the musician but to think that alcohol is worse for your musical abilities where drugs would be better for your abilities seems a "little out there" to me. Since alcohol is a drug, what's the difference?

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john4y

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Posts: 11465

Aug 19 06 12:09 AM

QUOTE (MaskedMarvel @ Aug 18 2006, 07:39 PM)

. Many talked about the alcohol use of musicians but I hardly can recall any drug stories.

Hi, Marvel.

Same here. I've always understood alcohol to be just another drug, or spirit, as some people call that.

I honestly can't say that I ever heard of any pre-war muscian using drugs, except maybe Louis Armstrong and those cats.

We all know that Son House drank, and he was an alcoholic. I'd be beside Mississippi John Hurt at some of his concerts and he always carried a pint in his back pocket. Before he'd go on stage, he'd reach for that pint of Old Grand Dad and gulp it down like water, no chaser or anything. When I saw my uncle do that, I used to be afraid for him. When talking to my mom about it she'd say that he needed that liquor to calm his nerves and give him the spirit.

Mississippi John Hurt was offered marijuana on a number of occasions, but he always turned it down calling it "poor mans medicine".

As for Skip, I never saw him take drugs, except his prescribed medication, and I never saw him take a drink.

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steelbull

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Aug 19 06 12:18 AM

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steelbull

#13

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Aug 19 06 12:41 AM

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john4y

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Aug 19 06 3:49 AM

QUOTE (steelbull @ Aug 18 2006, 08:48 PM)

I truly believe that alcohol affects your playing ability much more than any drugs that I have tried. How many blues guitarist didn't or don't drink?

Another thing I just thought of I remember seeing Mississippi John Hurt on the Seeger show and man did he look drunk. I still enjoyed the hell out of his playing and singing. From what I've heard he was always drinking. Maybe John4y can correct or verify that.

Hi, steelbull.

You must already know that your first paragraph is downright silly, and I think you already tried to correct that.

As far as John Hurt ALWAYS drinking, I'd have to dispute that. I've sat around my house with him all day and never saw him take a drink, and he'd be having a good time with my family. You shouldn't always believe everything you hear, so you stand corrected there. I'm not saying he didn't drink because he did, but not always.

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

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john4y

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Aug 19 06 4:06 AM

QUOTE (steelbull @ Aug 19 2006, 12:41 AM)

support.

. John4y's post about Skip James (although prescription opiates are closely linked to illegal opiates) and Mississippi John Hurt seems to disregard this, but remember those are only two examples. Also the Memphis Jug Band song with cocaine in the title, maybe they weren't scared to mention illegal drugs hmmm.

Hi, steelbull.

Where you relate prescription opiates, or illegal opiates, to the medication that Skip James was taking is beyond me. It just sounds like another silly play of words because we don't exactly what he was prescribed - opiates, or not.

Those two examples may be thus, but they were actually first-hand according to what I saw, and not what I read about in some periodical.

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

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steelbull

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Aug 19 06 1:23 PM

I think you mentioned that he always carried a pint in his back pocket another time on another thread (also on this one) and that gave me the impression that he drank quite frequently. It was actually you that I was believing what I heard

, I did make the assumption though. As far as my comment about opiates I was just throwing that out there that presciption drugs can be similar to illegal drugs and are in fact drugs. I have no idea nor have I ever heard or read about Skip James taking prescription drugs until now. In my experience alcohol makes you sloppy drunk hence the song titles Sloppy Drunk Blues. I have noticed especially in Son House's playing when he is drunk he is out of tune and sounds like crap (watch the dvd Devils Got My Woman for example). Show me some examples where somebody has been using drugs and not drinking and sounds this terrible. I'm not saying these instances don't exist I'd just like to know about them.

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john4y

#17

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Deepest Blue

Posts: 11465

Aug 19 06 2:00 PM

QUOTE (steelbull @ Aug 19 2006, 01:23 PM)

Show me some examples where somebody has been using drugs and not drinking and sounds this terrible. I'm not saying these instances don't exist I'd just like to know about them.

Hi, steelbull.

Who is qualified to say whether or not a musician does better while he's playing or not playing under the use of alcohol or drugs? You were the one who said alcohol was worse for you. Prove that.

I think you were right when you said "I'm not saying these instances don't exist I'd just like to know about them". Well, keep reading on. Maybe someone will come along to increase your knowledge about that.

Mississippi John Hurt News

Forum Moderator: Frank Delaney

Where We Discuss All Things Mississippi John Hurt.My Webpage

Near Boston, Massachusetts

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MaskedMarvel

#18

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Aug 19 06 3:37 PM

Theres influence of alcohol on music I'm sure (like it influence driving so why not music) mostly alcohol affects the technical skills more than the brain senses. You don't have visions like drugs. It affects the technical implementation of the music while drugs distort the music. What I'm saying is that singers were singing several things that other's experience not only own experience. There are so many stories about the alcohol and non about the drugs. Why? Maybe you can tell.

All the above written is in my opinion unless it is someone else's opinion, or a fact.

Location: Zur Moshe, Israel

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steelbull

#19

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Aug 19 06 3:47 PM

Who is qualified to say whether or not a musician does better while he's playing or not playing under the use of alcohol or drugs? (quote: John4y)

The musicians who play under the influence and the audiences who witness them.

You were the one who said alcohol was worse for you. Prove that. (quote: John4y)

Maybe I'll get together an audience some musicians and some drugs and alcohol and do an experiment.

(edit) For the record John4y I wasn't asking anybody to PROVE anything I was asking for examples.

It seems to me that people can't fathom that i'm considering that alcohol may effect someones playing/singing/performing more so than some drugs. I can accept that you don't agree that's fine. How many of you have used drugs extensively over several years to actually know how drugs effect you?

Getting back to the original two questions.

Do drugs help or hurt or not effect your playing at all?
My opinion after giving it some thought is that they probably hurt your music possibly with exceptions. For example if you don't use drugs while performing or use drugs in moderation occasionally they may not effect you playing very much. Drugs probably do not have any positive effect on musical abilitily or creativity. This is my opinion for the moment.

How rampant was drug use amongst pre-war musicians?
Relatively sparse from what we've discussed so far.

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steelbull

#20

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Aug 19 06 3:56 PM

QUOTE (MaskedMarvel @ Aug 19 2006, 03:37 PM)

Theres influence of alcohol on music I'm sure (like it influence driving so why not music) mostly alcohol affects the technical skills more than the brain senses. You don't have visions like drugs. It affects the technical implementation of the music while drugs distort the music. What I'm saying is that singers were singing several things that other's experience not only own experience. There are so many stories about the alcohol and non about the drugs. Why? Maybe you can tell.

There are stories about drugs in music but it rarely doesn't involve alcohol. For example The Doors, Guns N' Roses, Ol' Dirty Bastard, Motley Crue, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Janice Joplin. Two that come to mind who from what I recall were not big drinkers are Ray Charles and Bob Marley and I thought both of their music was good during drug use. Any stories of Ray Charles being to high on dope or Bob Marley on pot to play up to par? I believe there are some for Ray Charles I just can't think of any.

By the way most drugs don't give you visuals or hallucinations as an acute affect of the drug. Alot of prescription drugs give you hallucintions as a side affect.

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